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Ye Olde Proof of Psi Discussion Discuss proof for or against the existence of psionics. This type of discussion does not belong anywhere else on the forums.

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Old 07-06-2008, 08:48 PM   #1
Rane
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Question Question to skeptics(Why????)

Let me start by saying I have already posted this on another site but decided to post it here as well. Now on with the show!!

This is my question to skeptics/non believers, You know the ones that go around saying "This stuff isn't real", "you people are stupid for believing this is real" "idiots" you know what I mean. These are my questions for you. FIRST of all, Excuse my language, but why the HELL are you on this site in the first place.

Do you get your kicks doing this stuff, do you purposely go to sites the demolish peoples hopes that they can do this, Some of you find these sites by accident yet feel the need to post, wtf mate?

Now some of you believe in some aspects of these things (KI magyk, psi ECT) but don't believe in others (I personally believe if you train hard and long enough you can do Practically anything, I found evidence that might support this to, I might post that later.)

I must ask of you, Please keep an open mind. Also some of you try doing it first, but then come back and say, this is not real, my question is, did you REALLY try it, put A LOT of work into it, hmmm??

Another question is this, If this isn't real then WHY are there so much sites and articles relating to this, I myself have book marked on my computer 167 articles and probably more if you go to the site and look for some, Sure SOME of them may be nearly the same but still that much and most likely A LOT more, why would people waste their time write these thing then building websites to post them??? Now some of you may say

'What about con artists there are a lot of them why not con people with this stuff. That my friend is simple, WHAT IS IN IT FOR THEM!!!!!! HA got you there, they get no money, the only thing they get is fooling someone and they don't get anything from that either!!!! Now, once again, Some of you might say “What about those things you have to BUY online' Well, I have barely ever ran into any of those sites, So HA!! Most sites are free. I rest my case.... well for now at least. I might add more later.
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Old 07-07-2008, 02:47 AM   #2
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I'm a skeptic at heart, you have no idea how hard it was/is to believe this stuff. A lot of the skeptics that you are talking about(aka skeptacultists) are mainly in it for kicks like you said. People get bored, and when some people get bored they get malicious. They like to pick on people. It makes them feel better about themselves to find others they think are different. Everyones heard that tired old speech before so I wont say anything more on that subject.

The first obstacle for most people(myself) is getting over the fact that you could be wrong, and that these abilities are not real. You see, when I first approached this, I was wary, I hate to be wrong and to be made a fool of. Not in front of other people so much, but in front of myself. Taking that leap of faith and applying actual time energy to this is an admission to that belief, and therefore causes you to be very vulnerable for the period of time where you are just starting out. For me it was the fear that it could all just be fake. That people make sites like these just to feel special. To make believe that they have special powers. People like that know there are others out there with the same mindset. They know that others out there can't feel special anywhere else on the planet except for places like these, where they can read peoples minds, move pencils without touching them, and a thousand other such things.


It is still taking me a monumental amount of effort to actually believe in this stuff. I don't really believe in anything but myself. So you may see where I have trouble with this. If I let myself fully believe in this, and it turns out I was being played a fool, I'll have lost any faith I had in myself, and others. I sure as hell don't trust anyone either, so a blow like that will definitly be devastating to me. I hate to be wrong. And I hate to be made a fool of. I know where people are coming from on the skeptical side. I know how a lot of them feel. Because I'm still struggling with it myself.

What I'm trying to say in answer to your question is they are curious. Whether they make fun of this site, or anything else, the fact that they took time out of their day to do so is a sign of their interest, no matter how malicious there comments are.


I hope that at least helped to answer your question, and also to help you understand where a true skeptic is coming from.
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Old 07-07-2008, 03:38 AM   #3
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Moved this to the appropriate area.
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Old 07-07-2008, 05:39 AM   #4
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Skeptics drive the EC's, not believers, and i don't mean the stupid, good for nothing skepticultists that degrade the EC's. True skeptics don't believe until solid evidence is presented (like actually FEELING the energy) and they actually TRY things out before they say they aren't real. Skepticultists just deny everything and don't bother trying things out.
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Old 07-07-2008, 10:18 PM   #5
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CS Lewis once said that the term 'skeptic' in its traditional sense means 'one who asks questions', not 'one who disbelieves'
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Old 07-07-2008, 10:27 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rane View Post
This is my question to skeptics/non believers, You know the ones that go around saying "This stuff isn't real", "you people are stupid for believing this is real" "idiots" you know what I mean. These are my questions for you. FIRST of all, Excuse my language, but why the HELL are you on this site in the first place.

Do you get your kicks doing this stuff, do you purposely go to sites the demolish peoples hopes that they can do this, Some of you find these sites by accident yet feel the need to post, wtf mate?
If you're so certain you can do all of these psionic things, how is a random skeptic showing up and posting demolishing your hopes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rane View Post
I must ask of you, Please keep an open mind. Also some of you try doing it first, but then come back and say, this is not real, my question is, did you REALLY try it, put A LOT of work into it, hmmm??
Define "A LOT". (lol caps)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rane View Post
Another question is this, If this isn't real then WHY are there so much sites and articles relating to this, I myself have book marked on my computer 167 articles and probably more if you go to the site and look for some, Sure SOME of them may be nearly the same but still that much and most likely A LOT more, why would people waste their time write these thing then building websites to post them??? Now some of you may say
Nice fallacy. Argument Ad Populum - if X number of people believe in/approve of something, it must true!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rane View Post
'What about con artists there are a lot of them why not con people with this stuff. That my friend is simple, WHAT IS IN IT FOR THEM!!!!!! HA got you there, they get no money, the only thing they get is fooling someone and they don't get anything from that either!!!! Now, once again, Some of you might say “What about those things you have to BUY online' Well, I have barely ever ran into any of those sites, So HA!! Most sites are free. I rest my case.... well for now at least. I might add more later.
That's just a plain terrible strawman. Who would say that con-men are out to convince the world that psionics exist? I haven't met a single skeptic who claims this.

The only real con artist claim I could see someone making is for Winged Wolf's selling of psychic stones or whatever. But she's already written tons of articles about psionics, so that'd be one hell of a commitment to conning others for profit. It's much more likely that she actually believes/thinks she's selling legit psionic swag.

Anyway, the original point I was trying to make here is that your strawman sucks. :)

P.S: InuYasha is awful.
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Old 07-07-2008, 10:38 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phenyx View Post
The first obstacle for most people(myself) is getting over the fact that you could be wrong, and that these abilities are not real. You see, when I first approached this, I was wary, I hate to be wrong and to be made a fool of. Not in front of other people so much, but in front of myself. Taking that leap of faith and applying actual time energy to this is an admission to that belief, and therefore causes you to be very vulnerable for the period of time where you are just starting out. For me it was the fear that it could all just be fake. That people make sites like these just to feel special. To make believe that they have special powers. People like that know there are others out there with the same mindset. They know that others out there can't feel special anywhere else on the planet except for places like these, where they can read peoples minds, move pencils without touching them, and a thousand other such things.


It is still taking me a monumental amount of effort to actually believe in this stuff. I don't really believe in anything but myself. So you may see where I have trouble with this. If I let myself fully believe in this, and it turns out I was being played a fool, I'll have lost any faith I had in myself, and others. I sure as hell don't trust anyone either, so a blow like that will definitly be devastating to me. I hate to be wrong. And I hate to be made a fool of. I know where people are coming from on the skeptical side. I know how a lot of them feel. Because I'm still struggling with it myself.

What I'm trying to say in answer to your question is they are curious. Whether they make fun of this site, or anything else, the fact that they took time out of their day to do so is a sign of their interest, no matter how malicious there comments are.

I hope that at least helped to answer your question, and also to help you understand where a true skeptic is coming from.
You make some good points and seem like an overall pretty sharp dude. It makes me wonder why you're even subscribing slightly to all of this. At least you're still super on-the-fence about it, I suppose.

Does that "wanting to feel special" thing apply to yourself? Or are you truly so open-minded that you would try just about anything? If the former, then I question what would drive you to want to feel special. If the latter, then are you not concerned with being too open-minded? Open-mindedness is fine and good, but it's still beneficial to apply some preliminary judgment in all things, lest you find yourself too naive and gullible.

One last question. Let's suppose you continue to practice and train at psionics for whatever period of time you feel is sufficient for you to decide whether or not it's worthwhile. Let's then say that you fail to observe or experience anything psionic. Would you then think it doesn't exist at all, or would you conclude that it does or could exist, but that you simply don't have the aptitude for it? Would you believe the others on these forums if they told you the latter?
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Old 07-07-2008, 11:41 PM   #8
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Hubris, you're on a psionics forum. Now i have a question to ask you, are you a skeptic? or a skepticultist? Everyone has the ability for psionics. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar.
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Old 07-08-2008, 12:48 AM   #9
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if I failed to do psionics for say.. 5 years, I would say that psionics for me seems impossible and that it may be possible for me with more time, or be possible to someone else.
I would not assume that it is fake, or that it is real.
It is stupid both ways, believing that because it didn't work for you so it doesn't work for someone else, but also stupid to believe that it works.

So I choose the middle. Do not believe anything.

I do not assume of believe.

I see it and then I learn, that something is some state.

I move things with psi, I know it is real.

But sometimes, you have to believe, or all is lost.

If you did not believe that you existed, how would you get through your day?

Without going scizo?

Won't work.

You need to choose to believe in what seems, what feels, what is right.

And sceptics and non-believers are fine by me, make sfor a good debate.

We sure can't prove it, everything might be a trick, but you can prove it to yourself.

And I do. And I will.

And that's how it works.
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Old 07-08-2008, 01:57 AM   #10
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Quote:
True skeptics don't believe until solid evidence is presented (like actually FEELING the energy)...
That isn't always true, "feeling" energy doesn't necessarily mean that it's there. Don't forget psychosomatic responses, biofeedback, etc. I don't usually feel energy in the physical sense, as I've described to Hubris before it's a "sixth sense" that hasn't got much to do with the others. Keep in mind that physical sensation is not always a good indication of something being there when it comes to psi.

I don't trust that "tingling" sensation I feel when I make a psi-ball. Ever.
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