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Ye Olde Proof of Psi Discussion Discuss proof for or against the existence of psionics. This type of discussion does not belong anywhere else on the forums.

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Old 06-13-2006, 01:20 AM   #21
Bobrobyn
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Okay, I don't know what I was thinking when I made this post, rofl.  Ah well...may it continue to grow :P  I honestly have nothing to add...I just read through it and honestly can't believe I posted this, hehe.
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Old 06-13-2006, 11:17 PM   #22
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Then why is it so near-universally perceived as a palpable thing which can be shaped and molded, programmed to hold patterns, formatted, and read?
Like I said, psi is possibly just a container and can do nothing on its own. Psi must use the observable forces to interact with physical reality. Things like heat, cold, magnetism and electricity, are forces which are felt by psi users. On top of this, all the sensations and experiences that we are both aware and unaware of, are felt because of the wonderful thing our body does called bio-feedback. We produce a likeness, or a picture of what our bodily mechanisms experience, to perceive our constantly chaotic, yet orderly compilation of occurances. We don't perceive in a direct manner, that is, all the things we experience, the sensations we ''feel'' are reproduced inside of our minds. Experiences of psi could be attributed to the phenomenon of consciousness interacting directly with reality by using psi* patterns which are arranged in certain ways resulting in forces interacting in a different manner than they normally would. Getting back to the quote, psi is so ''near-universally'' perceived as tangible because of it's near-universal presence in the interactions of all things. Psi exists as an idea and not a quantity, but it can still be defined as a perceivable "thing" because we have the capability to define abstract concepts. The reason it would be just an idea and not an actual quantifiable thing is because psi itself is just empty space dividing matter and defining it's states on a subatomic level. If peices of matter are arranged in a different pattern, they exist in a different state. Now, the reason we can interact with this "nothingness" and perceive it is because we are the ones who came up with the idea of 'a space absent of things' in the first place... so, I just dropped a bomb there, but take some time and try to understand what I am talking about. It has to do with awareness and creation of ideas.

*(quantum spaces of idealistic nothingness, but it is not nothing because even empty space is still an idea of what nothing should be...)
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Old 06-13-2006, 11:32 PM   #23
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I perceive psi in an untranslated fashion sometimes.

So, why can you give empty space sentience?
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Old 06-13-2006, 11:47 PM   #24
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I think you have a perfectly valid theory of how/what psi is, however I have never seen any evidence that leads me to believe that the "idea psi" theory is any more (or less) accurate then the "physical psi" theory.

It seems that all psi phenomena are explained equally well by either system.

What I'm basically saying is that you have theory, not fact. The only way you could prove your theory with fact would be to disprove the other, and you can no more disprove a psi theory, then you can disprove psi itself. (or at least, that's my opinion)
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Old 06-14-2006, 05:50 AM   #25
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So, why can you give empty space sentience?
Well, I didn't say that empty space is in fact sentient, but the idea of empty space is formed by our perceptions. The reason you may be able to give a construct sentience is because your mind is using the thought form that you create and altering the spaces of reality to fit a certain pattern, it would be called programming psi, basically. Different forms have different space patterning. It's not about the physical matter itself, because even the physical forms are broken down into more and more space. Perhaps we should start measuring psi in terms of what isn't present, rather than by what is.
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Old 06-14-2006, 06:45 AM   #26
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Ok, so the space has patterns...er...what fills up the rest?  I mean, if psi is space, then what is the non-space made of?  How could you manipulate the space without manipulating what is around it?

And why can constructs move around?
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Old 06-14-2006, 07:34 AM   #27
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just got back from trying to understand the warped physics of the "thing" in psi theory, so forgive me if i am thinking at a warped level...

in physics, theres this thing called a system.  as far as my teacher was able to explain it, a system is just an area in which things are done and their effects are measurable/there at all.  what if (sensors detect warped physics) you think about the area you try to affect with psi as a system, and because systems are always separate, the effects within the area are limited to the system and the system alone and cannot affect anything outside the area you tried to affect, the system.

and thats just a little bit too much thinking on this topic for me right now.  don't want to get locked into it.  did that with matter a few weeks ago, and the results were unpleasant (although i have a much better understanding of matter now [i think]).
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Old 06-14-2006, 05:15 PM   #28
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haha, pavlov, from my understanding, matter doesn't exist at all, really. It's kind of like a bunch of empty bubbles arranged in different patterns. The outside of the bubble, or, the film that covers the bubble and allows for it to be called that, is superfluous, meaning, its everywhere and is everything, but it can't really be called something because it is all things. Now, think of these bubbles vibrating at different frequencies until they become solid enough to repel eatchother when they are arranged in systematic formations. Thats a little far off of this discussion, but I hope you understand.
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Old 06-14-2006, 05:26 PM   #29
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This is beginning to sound like you think nothing exists.  Why couldn't it be the other way around--there's no such thing as empty space, there's always something there even if we can't perceive it yet?

Or maybe it's all just as it appears. <G>
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Old 06-15-2006, 12:39 AM   #30
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Arkhaios, are you quoting the Tao Te Ching?
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