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Old 07-10-2010, 03:04 PM   #11
Pat McDonald
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Well... maybe not a retrovirus, but there could be factors on the microscopic scale which influence psionic development.
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Old 07-10-2010, 07:14 PM   #12
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I read somewhere that it could be epi-genes that are responsible for innate psi, but then again, it could also be contact with the Flying Spaghetti Monster's noodly appendage.
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Old 07-10-2010, 08:54 PM   #13
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Genetic research has nothing to do with psi outside of psychiatric genetics which is a branch neurogenetics. This would have to do with utilization and not production of said phenomena. There is no biological organ which spits out huge blast of radiation which defies the laws of physics.
A) You absolutely uncategorically and undeniably do not know that. <lol>

B) Psionics does not defy the laws of physics. If there is an apparent conflict then either some information is missing, or the laws of physics are not laws--they are incorrect. This should be obvious.
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Last edited by Winged_Wolf; 07-11-2010 at 07:42 PM.
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Old 07-13-2010, 11:26 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by voiddragon View Post
A) You absolutely uncategorically and undeniably do not know that. <lol>

B) Psionics does not defy the laws of physics. If there is an apparent conflict then either some information is missing, or the laws of physics are not laws--they are incorrect. This should be obvious.
Winged Wolf, that is really sad. Versus admitting that what you said about genetics was wrong, you edited out my entire post. Yeah, we do know this to be true because there is no one running around with a genetic structure allowing them to shoot burst of radiation with properties that defy the laws of physics. We also DO know that no such structures exist in the brain.

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I read somewhere that it could be epi-genes that are responsible for innate psi, but then again, it could also be contact with the Flying Spaghetti Monster's noodly appendage.
Versus retyping my post, that Winged Wolf decided to edit out for no reason, I will post articles on it.

Epistasis: what it means, what it doesn’t mean, and statistical methods to detect it in humans

The Genetics of Brain Wiring: From Molecule to Mind

What is (Schrödinger's) Negentropy?

That is information on epistasis and its impact on the human brain. In short, epistasis would impact regulation of biochemical pathways, and structures, which would impact, overall, human cognition which would impact cognitive utilization of psi, but it would not create any biological structures, outside of that, which do it. In other words, there is no such thing as a psi gene to create a psi organ to do psionics. There is no possible way that it can be a retrovirus. You can not prove this. Winged Wolf, you are not a mutant, a reptile, or a wolf. You are not a psionic mutant. You are nothing more than a human who does not have the ability to spit our radiation from your brain. The last link, up there, was about how energy flows in biological systems. There are a total of 5 articles, in this thread, that prove my point. There is 0 backing for anything you have said, period.
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Last edited by voiddragon; 07-14-2010 at 12:08 AM.
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Old 07-14-2010, 03:46 AM   #15
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Hmm. I don't know what was originally posted. So I can't really make a judgment. I can say though that our gene's control everything physiological. They control enzymes, which control our cellular ability to break apart or recombine molecules and what have you. So if anyone trying to make the argument that gene's don't effect our ability in the psionic department then they're full of... well you know what i mean. Even if there is no direct biological aspect to our psionic ability, which i'm still not convinced of, then the simple fact that gene's effect mental processes period constitutes a relationship between DNA and psi in some way shape or form.

PS. If no one was making the argument that DNA does not effect psionics then the post was not intended for you.

PPS. I thought of an interesting question. IF there is truly no biological aspect to psionic abilities, AND the theory that void is adhering to, please correct me if i'm wrong. Is that it is consciousness and awareness(self awareness sentience etc.) that is somehow able to physically effect, with sometimes drastic reactions, our physical world. IF this is in fact true then the following two statement are also true.

A) A fully self aware, intelligent, conscious and observant mind in the form of zeroes and ones on a computer should also be able to perform psionic feats.

B) No object that anyone makes now, or ever(aside from a sentient one) will ever be able to aid in, or by itself create, psionic effects.
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Old 07-14-2010, 05:45 AM   #16
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PPS. I thought of an interesting question. IF there is truly no biological aspect to psionic abilities, AND the theory that void is adhering to, please correct me if i'm wrong. Is that it is consciousness and awareness(self awareness sentience etc.) that is somehow able to physically effect, with sometimes drastic reactions, our physical world. IF this is in fact true then the following two statement are also true.
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That is information on epistasis and its impact on the human brain. In short, epistasis would impact regulation of biochemical pathways, and structures, which would impact, overall, human cognition which would impact cognitive utilization of psi, but it would not create any biological structures, outside of that, which do it. In other words, there is no such thing as a psi gene to create a psi organ to do psionics. There is no possible way that it can be a retrovirus.
Nomad, I have a Bachelors of Science Degree in Microbial Genetics. As I stated, before, the biological component would be how the brain utilizes psi, but the brain is not the thing that performs psi, thus, genetics would impact a predisposition to cognitive states which would have a positive correlation with psi. Yes, psi is correlated with brain states, which are correlated with psychological states; however, it seems that the brain is a mediating aspect since there is no empirical evidence to point to a direct link and it goes against how neurophysiology works. In other words, the genetic link would be a group of possible cognitive traits which would have a positive correlation with psi.

For example, my mind is very systematic and axiomatic. I am able to easily assign information to a type of conceptual object/entity in such a way that I can organize it, easily, within my mind making it so that I can quickly organize information into a dynamic library, or an active descriptive ontology, allowing me to extract information from it from how the entities fit together in that library. This allows me to quickly see and recognize patterns as well as see how things fix together. This is very useful when it comes to psi. It allows my mind to actively translate psi mediated information into a series of objects via various ideograms and logograms which can be encoded as semantic information versus relying on the tacit and intuitive knowledge that a lot of people have to rely on. This is a cognitive trait which is beneficial to psi. The branch of genetics which focuses on that is neurogenetics.

I think the usage of consciousness is very vague. Is a neuron conscious? No. A brain is but a neuron is not. Where consciousness is located in the whole system is hard to pin point, but the thing that does psi is an entity which is interconnected with other entities on a more fundamental level. This would make it an intrinsic component to what we would like to call reality. Consciousness would not be this thing, of course. Outside of cognitive traits and physiological feedback (my brain realizing the information is there thereby reacting), there is no biological link to psi. Whatever it is happens on a deeper level than biology.

Psychology is a process that emerges from neurophysiology; therefore, it would just be a virtual manifestation of information encoded within the neurons. The thought that happens in these neurons and a physical object outside of your brain are not one in the same, thus, it is a misconception to say that the thing that does this is the mind, in the psychological sense, and that purely psychosocial factors play a role in how it is inherited between family members, but it is also a fallacy to say that genetics passes these on. There is no direct link between the activity in those neurons and the object outside of your skull.
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Last edited by voiddragon; 07-14-2010 at 05:58 AM.
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Old 07-14-2010, 11:48 AM   #17
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Void, you still haven't explained the radio interference caused by living humans on a standard AM analogue radio receiver.

If that isn't evidence for a biophysical EM field then I'm afraid that you are simply ignoring the evidence.

Ever read Psychic Warrior? That might give you an insight into what can trigger extraordinary powers of perception.
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Old 07-14-2010, 06:13 PM   #18
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Um, Void, you're entire argument right now was irrelevant to ANY of the questions I posed. ot only did you not clarify your exact understanding of what it is in us that allows us to perform psionic feats. But you quoted a snippet of my argument then started off with the notion that your degree somehow makes you an expert on this.

My statement's therefore stand unperturbed. That IF it is not biological, THEN a computer can do it.

Also I find it funny you were arguing against what I said at all. Since at the end of the day, I agreed with you on this topic.

Also you still haven't shown how the original article you posted has anything to do with Psi.
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Old 07-14-2010, 06:33 PM   #19
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Um, Void, you're entire argument right now was irrelevant to ANY of the questions I posed. ot only did you not clarify your exact understanding of what it is in us that allows us to perform psionic feats. But you quoted a snippet of my argument then started off with the notion that your degree somehow makes you an expert on this.

My statement's therefore stand unperturbed. That IF it is not biological, THEN a computer can do it.

Also I find it funny you were arguing against what I said at all. Since at the end of the day, I agreed with you on this topic.

Also you still haven't shown how the original article you posted has anything to do with Psi.
I wasn't arguing; I was clarifying which is what you asked for. I stated that the ability to utilize psi is tied to cognition which is rooted in neurophysiology; however, the brain is not responsible for the underlying mechanic the same way that our ability to use abstract thought to figure out complex physics equations does not create the force of gravity. In other words, the thing that does psi is not in our body but it is intrinsic, or underlies, all of matter. Psychokinesis is the result of that connection resulting in transference of information between the organism and the connected matter and that connection is what allows for anomalous cognition. A computer is not capable of doing psi nor is a human brain. They are equally not capable of doing it. The only difference is that the human brain can tell an interconnected aspect to do it. In this, your brain is a mediation device. It stores and transmits information to another aspect of itself which then does the psychic thing and sends back the results to the brain or the physical system changes.

My original article has nothing to do with psionics; I never stated that it did have anything to do with psionics.

Let me explicitly state it:

Your body does not create anything which produces psionic feats.

There is no biological mechanism to psi.

Your thoughts, in the biological sense, take place only within your brain and that brain does not extend outside of its skull. It is a virtual network with overlays the tissue of your brain. There is no way for a thought, in this sense, to extend outside of the brain to other brains and to objects outside of itself. Your nerves do not extend beyond your body. Your nerves do not production some special type of radiation. There is no possible biological way for this to happen.

The only genetic component would be neurogenetic in regards to interconnected loci generating a cognitive framework that gives one the predisposition of having cognitive traits conductive to psi. That is it. It is not retro virus. It is not a mutation. It is not some special nervous system configuration power. My original post, in this thread, also had nothing, at all, to do with psionics or psi or whatever.
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There is no becoming, no revolution, no struggle, no path; already you're the monarch of your own skin--your inviolable freedom waits to be completed only by the love of other monarchs: a politics of dream, urgent as the blueness of sky. "

-- Hakim Bey
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Old 07-14-2010, 06:41 PM   #20
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Hmm. Then a sentient computer can perform psi? rhetorical question actually as you already stated this to be true. Computer's as a medium won't matter if the processes(thoughts) are of a nature to allow for such endeavors.

Also, I'd like to point out that this is a psi area. Maybe someone should move this irrelevant topic into a more general discussion area. I say irrelevant only because this particular area of this particular forum is for "non-guild psi research" if the post wasn't about psi then you should make sure to double check where you are posting stuff.

Oh, and thanks for the clarification.
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