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Ethics Discussion Discuss ethical concerns related to the use of psionics.

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Old 02-10-2006, 03:58 AM   #1
Snow_Jule
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Ethics of Self Destruction

So, I thought I would throw this down for debate. It's basically a theory for self cleansing of humanity, but could also cause self-annhialation, whichever is more appropriate for the person. This deals with constructs that would require extremely complex, precise and powerful programming to be succesful and ethical. OK...

Heres the Idea; its like a human meatgrinder for the psyche, but a good one, one that would be beneficial to the progress of humanity and it has no sort of infringement upon free will whatsoever. Somehow, a persons subconscious is activated and they are put into a lucid dreamlike state where they see a building, much like a fun house. They are attracted to it and choose to enter based on their own personal preferences, such as sex, alcahol or violence, or good things like food or light or poetry, anything that the person is attracted to, they are drawn in by their desires, if they have any. It wouldn't be surreal or frightening or make them wonder, it would just be something they would be like, hey, that place looks like fun, I think I'll go check it out. Then, once inside, they go through a process of navigating their own subconscious and are finally confronted with every past memory and emotion and act that they have performed in their life and ultimately, they are confronted by a complete unedistorted version of themselves. Then, after this has happened, by nature of the human psyche, they see all these acts and based on their nature, discern whether they have lived a beneficial life or a harmful life in relation to human civilization as a whole, according to their intrinsic awareness and nature, which I beleive is ultimately striving to uplift and create, not slam and destroy. Then, after all this, the person is ejected back into normal consciousness with this experience of self and the consequences of their actions. There would be probably one of three things that would happen...

They, A: either drop to their knees, weep, repent, do whatever sort of greiving if they have been harmful to humanity and then want to change their life.

or, B: Walk away feeling good about themselves and their actions

or, C: Just drop dead or die soon after from the upheaval and guilt taking place in their minds

Now, this may sound torturous, but it isn't, because all the pain or death or goodness that results is a repercussive action based on the individuals personal choices and actions.

Also, I realize there are many social contexts that come into play regarding the ideas of being harmful or beneficial, but this would take those socially created ideologies into account and the person would have a sense of extreme clarity that would not be based on any social experiences. The person would have no memory of being themselves for the time they were inside seeing their life. It would be like watching a movie of themselves from birth to now, and when the now time of their life came, they would be back in their bodies again, with complete memory of the life they have led, the actions they have performed, and the harm they might have caused, either ignorantly or purposefully. There wouldn't be any gaps, they would be standing there after this process of self evaluation, knowing fully well the course of their actions, from every small detail to the larger scope of what their actions caused to change. If they were happy with it all, then they would be left with that and they would probably continue to live their life normally, or make some other changes. If they had caused much pain and destruction unknowingly, then they would probably choose to be forgiven and change their life drastically, or go insane, or commit suicide, or self destruct through guilt or fear. If they knew what they were doing was harmful to others, then I think the same thing would happen as if they had unknowingly caused harm, probably more drastic of a reaction though. Certain ones would need to be locked up if they still chose to act in such destructive manners that did not benefit or further humanity in it's path of evolution. Even destruction and death has its benefits in the paths of evolution and life. But, I have no idea how people would react under those circumstances...

So, this is my ethical question:

Would it be right, or ethical, to create such a mechanism that would cause people to retrospect in such a radical manner? Another part of the programming would be an anciallary construct designed to ask the person if they wanted to do this, but it would basically be a yes or no type thing, like, there is this experience over here you could have, will you experience it? Yes or No? It would ask the subconscious and not the person directly. It wouldn't tell them that there is this portal over here which will show you all of the events in your life in complete clarity and afterwards, you will know exactly what your actions have caused. I'm sure some people would say no immediately because they sort of know they've been harmful to others. On the other hand, some people would love to experience something like that; getting to know the full scope of your actions. What do you all think about this concept?
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Old 02-10-2006, 08:01 AM   #2
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:::Walks away not giving a damn::: <--majority of humanity. ;)

It's all so subjective. How can anyone say, in the bigger picture, whether ANY given action benefitted or harmed humanity? Do I care? Nope.

Of course it wouldn't be ethical, it seems an obvious question to me. Tampering with a person's mind without their consent is not ethical. It doesn't matter what your motivations are. You're talking largely about adults, here, not children...adults capable of taking informed responsibility for their own actions, and making informed decisions. Including the decision not to face things they don't want to face within themselves.

If you want to do it, though, go right ahead, I just think you'll be quite disappointed by the results. Most people are already aware on some level of the results of their behavior on 'humanity' during their life. Who's to say what humanity's path of evolution is? And what might be beneficial? Nature knows what she's doing...if you believe humanity is evolving, then trust that it's happening as a natural process, as we speak.
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Old 02-11-2006, 12:03 AM   #3
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I've intentionally harmed people in all variety of manners and not given a damn. There are some people though that I would never do that to. Personally, I don't think it would do jack-shit to me, anything I've done that I feel guilty about (or would) I'm already aware of.
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Old 02-11-2006, 01:14 AM   #4
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The point of this would be to allow people to see themselves from a different lens of perception, one that is not socially constructed. You may be aware of what you do from your own point of view, but others may see it differently and other parts of yourself might also perceive this information differently as well. Your subconscious is taking in experiences from all different angles and undistorted through your sensory perceptions. From there, that information is categorized and made coherant so your conscious awareness can process the information and make sense of the picture. Much of this making sense of things comes from socially created standards, like I see it this way, you see it this way, they see it this way, so, this is what we agree upon. Even though a group agrees to how they perceive situations and objects, the situation or object may be different for an individual or another group with different senses. No one group is ever right over another about what they perceive reality to be.

So you think you can recollect your actions in such clarity you would be able to judge yourself accurately? You may be aware that you feel guilty about it, or that you would feel guilty about it, but are you aware of how your actions cause you to feel this way, down to the subatomic level? Would you be aware of the energetic patterns of thought and intention and how they move and interact with other people and the environment?

I don't doubt that you are aware of your actions to some degree, but entirely, I do doubt that.
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Old 02-11-2006, 02:59 AM   #5
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Well, the thing is, you really can't program a construct to do something that you aren't able to do yourself. So, being human, you're not able to perceive things significantly better than anyone else--so you wouldn't be able to make a construct that would grant someone else that type of perception.

I don't think I agree that no group's view of reality is better than another's...there are some pretty screwed up groups out there. I do think it's possible for some approaches to reveal a bit more of objective reality than others.
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Old 02-23-2006, 06:59 AM   #6
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holy crap!!!

Something like that would take FOREVER to program!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and where in Gods green Earth are you going to get the energy to put them down, lock them in, and keep them trapped until they reach a conclusion?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
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