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View Poll Results: Is it a good idea? (Please specify details in a post)
It's too dangerous. I don't think you should do it. 6 37.50%
It's a terrible idea. It won't work. 7 43.75%
It's an okay idea. It might work. 3 18.75%
It's a good idea. It could be effective. 1 6.25%
I have a different idea. 7 43.75%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 16. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-29-2010, 07:31 AM   #1
Yuki3141
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How can I prove to my friend that he is not "the devil"?

My friend and I have recently been exploring energy work. My friend is bipolar. He suddenly lost interest in energy work, saying that he was a "realist." I began to realize how his disorder was affecting his thought processes. I became obsessed with helping him, but he didn't want any help, and I didn't hear from him for a week. He told me today that he wants to start up again, and then later he told me, "his soul told him that he was the devil."

First of all this doesn't make sense to me logically because I believe "the devil" is a symbol, not an actual entity. I do believe he has an aspect of himself that is devious, angry, and insatiably lustful for power (and he agrees, in fact he told me first). This aspect has sort of separated itself from him so that it has its own thoughts. I think this devil thing is either a regular impulsive belief, or its a trick by his dark entity to allow it to gain power.

As I was listening to him talk about his belief that he is the devil and get angry at me because I disagreed, I thought of a potentially dangerous idea to prove to him that he isn't the devil. I thought, "well surely a real demon wouldn't attack you if you are in fact the devil, and if it does, then I guess you're not." I know dealing with demons is dangerous, but what if I created a thought-form demon? It would be specifically designed to 1)Listen to my commands 2)Never do irreparable damage 3)Feel energetically like a real demon. Once created, I would have it attack him in a way that he would feel it, but not damage him in any way. After that I would dissolve the thought-form.

Does this sound like a good (or at least OK) idea to prove to him he isn't the devil?
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Old 04-29-2010, 02:17 PM   #2
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Wouldn't that be dishonest? Why don't you just ask him to hold a bible or dip his finger in holy water and if he doesn't burst into flames then you'd have proven he isn't the devil?
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Old 04-29-2010, 02:48 PM   #3
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why would you need to bother? if he wants to believe that and so long as he's not harming anyone what does it matter?

he'll grow out of it in time or go on to become a sociopath regardless so trying anything is really silly and likely to foul up the friendship.
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Old 04-29-2010, 04:59 PM   #4
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You can show people any amount of evidence, logic, reason etc.

Beliefs are, quite simply, irrational. Because they are truths that are clung onto without any form of proof, experience etc. That doesn't mean beliefs are always false... but it's a nutcracker trying to prove that a belief really is false.

It's a waste of time even trying. Personally I reckon it could just be your friend fed up with you being right all the time so they've settled on a belief that cannot actually be disproven.

If you still want the relationship then at best you can agree to differ on opinion... but quite frankly I wouldn't bother. Too much of an energy loss. However I don't know what the friendship actually means to you.

That's my 0.02 cents worth.
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Old 04-30-2010, 02:26 AM   #5
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(edit: I basically just expand upon what redregon said)

I would recommend not doing anything, from my experience with a friend who is a partial and schizophrenic, who also thought he was the devil, it is part of their search for their self identity and will (most likely...) grow out of it. I would teach him limited energy manipulation; enough that if he does start screwing around with demons thinking he can control them then he will have enough skill to defend himself but not enough ability to do any real damage. Understand?

P.S. Demons would attach the devil if he were in human form. don't question this it is fact.
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Last edited by ChaosAngel; 04-30-2010 at 02:38 AM.
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Old 04-30-2010, 02:15 PM   #6
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I agree with psionide, its better than risking damaging his energy system, just show him a cross or dip his hand in holy water or make him walk in a church or something. The thought form could go rouge if sentient or not be programmed correctly and harm your friend. Just let him grow out of it
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Old 04-30-2010, 03:56 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosAngel View Post
P.S. Demons would attack the devil if he were in human form. don't question this it is fact.
i kinda agree with this. demons aren't nessessarily "big bads" of the energy world, they're just beings created with a LOT of energy usually. sometimes they're sentient, sometimes they're not. they also predate christianity so someone claiming to be the fallen angel lucifer (read the bible) or Shaitan (read the Koran) and claiming dominion over them might be seen as a sort of sleight/insult.

other-realm beings have this odd little ability to be able to see though us. they know if we're lying (since deep down WE know we're lying and they can detect that stuff) and if it's one that's somehow developed some sort of distaste for lies (or people, or whatever) they may have absolutely no compunctions against laying the smackdown.

yes, they're not impossible to deal with, but most newbs have no idea what it is they're dealing with or how to protect themselves from a being of such energy/potency. hell, not even people like alestair crowly knew what it was he was dealing with, he just knew about specific entities... it's like the difference between taking an anatomy class for medicine and an anatomy class for art.
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Old 05-01-2010, 02:05 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redregon View Post
Shaitan (read the Koran)
I understand that it is technically Aramaic and translates as "Adversary" in that language. In other words, it does not seem to be a part of pre-Babylon exile Judaism but was picked up in Babylon.

In Arabic it translates as "Deceiver". So anybody who claimed to be Shaitan would never be taken seriously within that culture as they are claiming to be a deceiver...

The Koran is a fine book to read. I'd recommend the Yusuf Ali version in English - it's not perfect but it's the best I've come across.
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Old 05-01-2010, 10:07 PM   #9
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If he was the devil, he's be extremely powerful, could teleport around the world at will, alter reality at will, etc. You see those movies and TV shows where the devil bends reality to grant wishes in exchange for a soul. That's the kind of power the devil (who doesn't exist) has. That's what you need to tell him OP.
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Old 05-02-2010, 09:02 PM   #10
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Eeep, yeah, that's definitely schizoid behavior right there. Certain types of bipolar can lead to states that are essentially indistinguishable from a schizophrenic attack. Delusions of grandeur (which this is a painfully typical example of) are what happens when basically one gets an idea in their head, and that idea rattles around the brain unchallenged.

It's tough to say what sort of "flavor" of bipolar he has just through this post - bipolar can range from basically just being very sensitive to changes and moody, to basically schizophrenia that leads to long bouts of depression (being crazy ain't easy). If they are mostly rational most of the time and just prone to occasional bouts of grandeur or outrageous ideas, often times if you just give them time, eventually they'll realize, "Gee, that was a silly idea, I have no idea why I thought that." However, in more severe cases, it builds on itself and the brain essentially fabricates its own reality around misconstrued perceptions; that is a really dangerous situation that unfortunately is often best dealt with a brief stay at a psychiatric hospital and some medication.

Regardless of that, bipolar people in general tend to be moody and overreactive, so doing anything to rattle their cage too much might seriously upset them. As in, if they really were convinced they were the devil or even demonic, an encounter with holy water would cause them to flip out and maybe even exhibit a rash or outbreak at the area.

If you are going to try to resolve things with energy work, I wouldn't try to do it with anything terribly complicated, just try to hack into his brain and dislodge some of the irrational thoughts. Sending lots of healing energy also helps. Also, he should not be engaging in energy work or the occult, because even people with their head screwed on straight have trouble distinguishing illusion from reality.

Failing that, I hate to say it because I hate the system, but he might need professional help. Give it about a month. If it continues to persist, or gets worse, or gets rapidly out of hand, you'll need to have some sort of intervention.
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